Debate / Discussion / Response

Open Letter to Any Christian

This is my response to a message I received from a friend of a family member. Their initial message is somewhat Irrelevant and asked if I was a parent and about free will.

I am not god. I’m not Omnipotent and Omniscient[all knowing] Which god is supposed to be… that means he does know our thoughts, he does know how we will react. he knows everything. He knew it before he created time, the earth, heaven or hell.

To say he isn’t Omnipotent, or Omniscient is to go against his word and is blasphemous.
If your religious training taught you to think about it this way, It taught you wrong, according to the scriptures.

Now, God is all knowing and all powerful, according to the bible. He knows the past present and the future. There is nothing he cannot do. [can god create something he can’t lift?] That means he knows the words I’m typing before I type them. He knew them before he created the earth. This is written in scripture. He is GOD for chrissake. lol

So, knowing these facts, why did he make me an unbeliever? Why did he make you a Christian?

Why did he make Osama Bin Laden Islamic? Why did he make Hitler such a jerk?

He knew what would happen. yet he made them anyway. I do not think this is Moral. and to claim it is, is wrong and immoral.

You have a higher moral standard on your own, by yourself than God has according to scripture just in my previous statements alone.

We can go further. God says he gave us free will, But with god being Omnipotent and All Knowing he knows what we will choose before we choose it. this is hardly free will.

So according to the bible, God already knew if I was going to be an unbeliever before the beginning of time. Why would he bother creating me then? He knew this about me specifically before he created Adam.

He knew Adam and Eve would eat of the Fruit of knowledge before he said let there be light. He knew this before there was a void.

He knew Lucifer would stake the claim that he was more attractive than god, he knew this before he created Lucifer.

And god Created evil, he claims this.Jer 18:11/ Is 45:7/Ezek 20:25… why bother? Unless he enjoys watching us suffer. Which he may, he works in mysterious ways. He created cancer, aids, cystic fibrosis, Flesh eating viruses, etc, etc. why would you do this? if you are the all loving father, and we are your children, why do you afflict us?

Would you give your kid cancer because they disobeyed you?

Would you sacrifice your child if God Commanded you to and you knew it was god beyond the shadow of a doubt?

Ask yourself this question in front of them and tell them your answer.

I hope you would not… regardless of how firm your belief is.

Many claim god doesn’t send people to hell… but I use the same analogy I did before.

I hold a gun to your head, “I love you, always. You have to love me too, you have the choice to love me or not, but if you don’t, I’ll kill you.” yes technically you have a choice. But does it really feel like you do? Of course not.

I know you would not Think this is a morally right thing to do to someone.

Why then when god says, “I give you the free will to choose to believe in me and accept my son as your savior, but if you don’t you are choosing to go to hell.” What if I say, “No. I don’t want to go to hell. I Choose not to go to hell. And I choose not to go to heaven.” What then? God would Force me to go to hell. So indeed he does send people.

Yet he already knew what would happen.

This is why I claim that if god does exist, I wouldn’t choose to worship him. Because if he is so petty to damn someone for exercising their mind, and critically thinking, and free will that HE GAVE THEM, and to question things that have no evidence, then he is not a Right God, he is not a Just God.

An infinite punishment for a finite crime is not just.

Many also say to me, “What if you’re wrong?” To that I say, “If i say i believe and go through the motions even though I know in my heart I don’t that God won’t see through it?”

This is called Pascal’s[sp?] wager. And could be applied to any religion.

What if you’re wrong and The Greek pantheon is the correct faith? What if You’re wrong and The Norse Pantheon is correct And since you weren’t a great warrior you won’t go to Valhalla but you will go into the wall of the worthless?

What if you’re wrong and the Invisible Pink Unicorn is the true faith? and if you don’t Throw sparkles on everything you own, and sing the magical unicorn prayer once every hour you’ll be cursed for eternity in the grasps of the green terror Dargon being incessantly burned by his unending fire breath?

And about personal Experiences I ask this:
What is more likely?
1.) The laws of physics and nature were suspended, just for you, in your favor.
2.) You’re mistaken.

Plus thousands of people have these same type of unexplainable experiences with their own deities everyday. Why are they wrong?

I know you didn’t ask what if I’m wrong, but eventually it comes up and I like to get it out of the way early. [=)]

I hope you read all of this and do think on it. I hope none of it came across as angry, or mean, or malice in any way. This is my personal beliefs on these things, and I do have scripture to back it up, in context. I refuse to take scripture out of context, and find it insulting when I am accused of it.
I look forward to your response. [=)]
-Dai

6 thoughts on “Open Letter to Any Christian

  1. Sir please know that not all Christians believe in that type of God. Some Christians, those who believe in universal reconciliation, which is in most of the Bible Translations, believe that there is no hell, no eternal punishment, but rather everyone is brought back to God through God’s love. It would indeed make God weak and evil if He’d have to kill or torture his own children for eternity, but it would glorify God if he could indeed reconcile everyone. And if anyone can reconcile everyone, then that must be God. This version of Christianity, universalism, believes in a God of love. God allows us to be in our current state so that we can explore how it is to be without God. We’ll only appreciate our time with God, if we understand how it is to be apart from God. Now to make it clear: the doctrine of hell does not originate in the New or Old Testament. These have been mistranslations in some versions of the Bible. The concept of hell is of pagan origin. Jesus makes no reference to this concept of “hell” nor does he mention that anyone will be tortured day and night continuously for not believing. Jesus mentions however that God is love. And Jesus mentions that once he is drawn to heaven he will DRAW (which means drag in greek) ALL people unto him, even if this means some will be drawn to him from the grave, and some will be unbelievers. Jesus paid the price for ALL of our sins. Everyone will be saved and reconciled with God. Everyone will be brought back to God. I agree perfectly with you, the way most modern Christians believe in God, that is NOT a God of Love. It’s a merciless beast that loves to torture most of his children. But that is not the real God my friend. The real God is a God of Love, who forgives everyone, and who gives everyone another chance no matter what sins they commit. A God who knew that we’ll go away from him, and a God who allowed it so that we’ll experience both being with him and being away. A God who knew that we’ll sin, but will forgive us and will come to Earth to die for our sins so that we can avoid eternal death. This God died for his enemies!! This God came down to Earth and died for me, for you, for all sinners. If this God was willing to die for his enemies, can you even imagine how great his love must be? Also remember the moment when the woman who committed adultery was brought to Jesus and everyone wanted her to get stoned? Remember what Jesus said? Jesus said that only the ones who have committed no sin can take a stone and throw at her. So everyone left, except Jesus. But what did Jesus do next? Did he take stones and start beating the woman? Did he criticize the woman? Did he condemn her? Did he punish her? Did he threaten her or warn her about eternal hell for her sins? NO. Jesus forgave her. Jesus simply told her to go and sin no more. That is the true love that God shows for us, his children.

    • I hate to sound like a troll, but come on. This sounds like you re-engineered the shit out of the standard version of Christianity and turned god into a pussy. He loves you and forgives you. Oh how nice. You can come over and shit on god’s couch and it’s all right. Let’s just reconcile. Never mind the people in the Old Testament that he ordered to have killed. He loves you and wants you, insignificant to the tune of over one in 7 billion people, to have a personal relationship with him. I must have been smoking crack to have believed any of this garbage. In a way I hope I am wrong. I will be in great company in hell. Oh I forgot, Hell is too hardcore for your tender version of Christianity.

  2. Way ahead of you. Eight centuries ahead of you, actually.

    It’s been widely recognised that if god can do anything it leads to paradoxes and issues. Since Thomas Aquinas his omnipotence has been defined more as the ability to do anything possible. His omniscience likewise may be limited to the possible but still be immense.

    It’s certainly possible to argue about the scale. Is there too much evil, too much unbelief, too much suffering? Anyway, onwards to your arguments.

    1. God made evil/unbelieving/ pagan peoples as he is all knowing and all powerful. Not an issue, God’s power is limited by the constraints of making functional humans and the randomness of the world. It is a powerful question due to our revulsion of Hitler, a natural gift from God and the holy spirit.

    2. Does God cause evil? In context, what he is doing is letting the Israelites be ruled by pagans after they worshipped pagan gods. He is giving them what they want. So if you freely chose evil, God will not protect you from evil. God’s perspective is understandable, many believe that unless you face consequences you will not learn.

    Things like cancer, they mostly come by sexual immorality (lots of stds cause cancer) and by eating a poor diet (those who remain thin and eat lots of greens tend to have a low rate of many cancers). We chose behaviour which leads to a lot of bad stuff because it’s really fun. We have freedom.

    3. “Would you sacrifice your child if God Commanded you to and you knew it was god beyond the shadow of a doubt?”

    We know biblically that God is against human sacrifice and regards it as immoral. I’d question if it was God if he ordered me to do something he said was immoral. If he suddenly changed and was all in favor of human sacrifice I’d question whether he was worth worshipping.

    4. Isn’t it immoral for God to force people to love him? Most biblical scholars believe with that the main punishment in Hell is not firey burning but shame that you made the wrong choice. So he agrees with you, it would be immoral to make you love him, and he has provided you with a backup existence in Hell. God is big on free will.

    5. “An infinite punishment for a finite crime is not just.” No crime is finite. If people are eternal in heaven and hell any crime you do will affect their mental state forever. Plus, what tales we have of hell do not have those in hell behaving well. The rich man calls up the poor man and tells him to fetch him water showing that even in death he is a cruel bastard who expects service from all. You can keep sinning in hell if you wish, and presumably most would.

    6. Many also say to me, “What if you’re wrong?” To that I say, “If i say i believe and go through the motions even though I know in my heart I don’t that God won’t see through it?”

    Pascal advised that those who intellectually but not emotionally believed in god to apply themselves to spiritual discipline, study, and community. You don’t intellectually believe in God so it’s not an issue for you but he was aware that God wouldn’t be fooled by lies. He also explained the lake of believability of random pagan religions as you describe. You can disagree with him but you should at least admit his argument.

    7. Thousands of people have these same type of unexplainable experiences with their own deities everyday. Why are they wrong?

    People like to say that, but they don’t tend to cite thousands of these unexplainable experiences. They assume other religions have lots of miraccles, they assume other religions have lots of experiences of personal contact with God. From my research, they don’t. Christianity is the only religion that makes that claim. Other religions do have euphoric experiences where the practitioners feel very close to nature and very relaxed, but they don’t tend to claim personal contact and don’t tend to claim miracles, bar the odd obvious fraudster who does sleight of hand miracles.

    There certainly is scope to disagree, but your open letter isn’t that sensitive to people’s actual arguments against it. It’s over eight centuries out of date. Do you really think you’re going to change someone’s mind if you can’t be bothered to take the time to understand their mind?

    • //God’s power is limited by the constraints of making functional humans and the randomness of the world. //

      Oh really? God’s power is limited? Not according to the bible. Rev 19:6, Gen. 18:14, Job 42:2, Matt. 19:26, Luke 1:37, Acts 26:8, Eph. 1:19, Eph. 3:20, Eph. 6:10. These scriptures disagree with you about the christian god.

      //Does God cause evil? In context, what he is doing is letting the Israelites be ruled by pagans after they worshipped pagan gods. He is giving them what they want. So if you freely chose evil, God will not protect you from evil. God’s perspective is understandable, many believe that unless you face consequences you will not learn.//

      Not according to the buybull.

      //Things like cancer, they mostly come by sexual immorality//

      Oh really? This proves to me you are a fucking piece of shit. You are not worth my time or efforts to even have a discussion with. Fuck you and your bigoted buybull, which apparently you don’t know too well. Making a claim like this only comes from ignorance. Also it reeks of homophobia. So fuck you and your god. I’m not having a discussion with someone who believes a blatant, unfounded lie such as this.

      • How dare you! I find it appalling that you were able to verbally destroy ytakery in this manner!
        Well, now that I think about it…. Nicely said and I couldn’t agree more.

    • Ytakery, you said: 2. …”So if you freely chose evil, God will not protect you from evil. God’s perspective is understandable, many believe that unless you face consequences you will not learn.”

      What about a small child, a toddler who gets raped? It is the perpretaters free will perhaps BUT god didn’t intervene just so he would not impose on the free will of the abuser? Is this fair to the small child who has no free will of its own due its inability to reason? God knows all apparently and does nothing to stop the rape. If god is the supreme intelligence, couldn’t he have given free will to all but somehow protected children from evil? Of course he could have. The mere fact that the most powerful being would not intervene with a miracle to spare a 2 year old is absolute proof that he is a monster and deserves no worship and only contempt. Any one who worships such a being is morally bankrupt and insane and deseserving of the highest ridicule and mistrust. Don’t go making excuses now for god not protecting children by stating it is an adults job. Intervention for the sake of the two year old is a mandatory requirement for a god. I’m sick of the excuses and the claims that god is love, all powerful, all knowing etc and that he stands by and allows this. Take a long hard look at the crap that you are spewing.

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